Taylor (00:00)
What happens when your kids are caught in the crossfire of divorce or high conflict co-parenting? In this episode, we're joined by trauma informed parenting coach, ⁓ Gujar from the Trauma Healing Parent.
Rachel (00:11)
We're talking about how to spot emotional distress in your kids, how to protect their nervous systems, and how to start filling their emotional buckets, even when the other parent is adding chaos. If you've been worried about how your child is really doing, this episode is your lifeline.
Taylor (00:28)
Welcome to the Divorce Queens podcast where real women get real about divorce. I'm Taylor Winds, divorce coach, family law attorney and mom of four.
Rachel (00:38)
And I'm Rachel Kennedy, family mediator, parenting consultant, and divorced mom of three. We are here to cut through the noise and bring you the legal, personal, and practical sides of divorce because getting divorced isn't just a legal process. It is a total life transformation.
Taylor (00:55)
So whether you're thinking about getting divorced, in the middle of the chaos, or trying to rebuild after it's all over, you're not alone. Grab your coffee, your wine, or your walking shoes, and let's get into it.
⁓ but we are here today on a super special episode of the Divorce Queens. I'm so excited. We're here with AJ Gajar, who is the owner and founder of the Trauma Healing Parent. And, ⁓ Rachel, how did you meet AJ?
Rachel (01:25)
Well, okay, so I co-founded the Divorce Support Collective and a while back we had a co-parenting success summit, this big online thing with all these expert speakers. And of course AJ was one of our expert speakers. ⁓ So she and I have connected in the time since then, kind of personally, professionally, kind of just the divorced mom thing, working in the divorce space. And that's how we got here.
So AJ, thanks for being here. Do you wanna tell us a little bit about yourself?
AJ (01:57)
Yes, thank you for having me. I'm super excited to be here. So I guess what I do really is I empower parents to best support their children who are struggling because of a high conflict divorce dynamic or are struggling because one of their parents are experiencing post separation abuse or are struggling because they themselves as the children are experiencing coercive parenting and things like that. And we can get into what all of that means a little bit later.
⁓ But that's the majority of my work and how I kind of started doing that really was I've always been in this world of child development and creating the best outcomes for kids possible. And I did that for about 15 years and then I found myself divorced and a single mom and all the things. And then what really happened was it opened up this entire world of children who were struggling through these kinds of dynamics.
And when I started looking for resources for how to best support these kids, what I found was that there really wasn't much of anything, right? There was a big gap in resources. And when we talk about domestic abuse and we talk about post-separation abuse and things like that, there's quite a few resources for the, like the other partner, right? The person experiencing it. But I think where the gap is, is we're not necessarily looking at if, say for example, mom is experiencing this, that is also impacting the kids, right? In a very significant way.
And mom may have been able to remove herself from that toxic environment, but chances are the kids are still in it, even if it's just 50 % of the time or 30 % of the time or whatever that parenting dynamic looks like, right? So really trying to find a way to support these kids and there wasn't anything out there. So I kind of call it the perfect storm. I kind of put together my educational background. I put together my work experience and created this approach. ⁓
that really supports kids and it's specifically created to support kids who are navigating the high conflict dynamic and whose parents are in that post separation abuse world because there is so much trauma that these kids both witness and experience that really the bottom line comes down to you can't actually parent children with trauma as you would parent children without trauma.
It just, it doesn't work. It doesn't work to their benefit, right? So that's kind of how this all came about. That's what I do now. I also work within the legal and the therapeutic sectors in terms of trying to create awareness and education within those sectors around what the implications of these decisions being made for children actually mean for these kids, what child voice really means and what.
the long-term implications of what these kids are going through is really like, because I think that there's not a lot of awareness around, a lot of awareness around that right now. ⁓ So that's the majority of it, yeah. And then I also recently, I collaborated on a book called Children's Mental Health Matters, which we'll put a link into that in the show notes here. But that's really a really great resource for parents to kind of get their hands on, even if you're not navigating a high conflict divorce.
It's something that has information about if your kids are struggling with anxiety, if your kids are struggling with self harm, if your kids are struggling with, and as we know in this day and age, our kiddos are struggling with so much stuff outside of the divorce dynamic, right? Once we bring in the divorce dynamic, that's a whole nother ball game, but even just outside the divorce dynamic, there's just so much going on for them that, you know, parents are looking for resources and that's actually a really great place to start.
Taylor (05:39)
That's so great. That is so great. So you said something and I already had a bunch of questions before we even started, but you said something that kind of brought a new question to the forefront of my mind. And you said that you really can't parent children with trauma the same way as you parent children without trauma. And that is huge. I think we
sometimes disregard trauma or other things our kids have going on. And we think if we just tighten the rules, if we punish them more, if we raise expectations, if we're firm with them, that it's, it's going to work and we're going to get the desire to fact and they're going to be good and everything's going to be fine. But we're discounting a huge thing that's playing into how they're developing, what their behavior is like, what their day to day is like. How do you see or like, what should we be looking for?
When we're trying to identify whether or not our children are having maybe like trauma responses to things that are going on around them, how do we first identify that? And then what are some things we need to do or consider like resources we should be going out to look for if we think they're suffering the like an effect of trauma to learn how to parent them better.
AJ (06:57)
So a lot of parents come to me when they start noticing behavioral differences with their kids, right? So you have a baseline as a parent, we all have a baseline. We know what our kids are like, we know how they react, we know how they respond. Once there's a significant shift in that. with younger kids, what I see is a lot of overt behaviors, like a lot of big emotions, a lot of big behaviors coming out. It's things like I had a client who said she had a little girl.
And the little girl was very, very quiet. She was shy. She was like very demure, very happy-go-lucky, like just a great little kid. And then as soon as 50-50 transition started with dad, after about a couple months, this kid, not a bone in her body, but this kid was coming back and kicking and crying and screaming and punching and spitting all towards mom.
And these episodes, I guess, emotional outbursts would sometimes last for two to three hours. Sometimes they'd last for two to three days on and off, right? So that was a major behavioral shift from what her baseline behavior was, right? So that's what you kind of see for little kids. What you tend to see with older kids is if they're coming back from an environment where they have not felt safe for a period of time, then what we're typically seeing is these kids get really quiet and they internalize a lot of stuff.
So they're gonna come back home to the safe parent's house. They're probably gonna wanna go into their room. They're probably not gonna wanna come out. They're probably not gonna wanna talk very much and they just need to decompress and they just need that time. Now, if that's normal developmental stuff, because sometimes in the teenage years it can be, then that's okay. But if it's not typical of how your kid normally behaves, then that's something that we need to look into.
And then the second part to your question, I guess, as far as resources and things like that go, ironically, I tell parents, you yourself are their best resource. And the reason for that is you have an attachment to that kid, or I should say it the other way. Your kid has an attachment to you. It's biological, it's instinctual, it's intrinsic. And the amount of support and the amount of healing that you can provide for your kid
through that relationship is more efficient and more effective than anybody out there can do, any doctor, any therapist, any of that, right? The key to it is that we really have to kind of take a step back and look at the structure in our home, look at what is happening, look at where can we be a little bit more flexible? Where can we be a little bit more responsive to these kids' needs? Where can we shift our parenting a little bit?
so that we can be more responsive to what their needs are at this time, as opposed to the other typical parenting styles where we're looking at boundaries and expectations and rules and follow through and consequences and all of those things, right? I have parents coming to me being like, I'm doing all the things. I'm implementing all the boundaries and all the rules and they're still not cleaning their room and they're not emptying their lunch kits and they're not listening and they just, they won't do anything. And it's because we're not meeting a need that they clearly have.
Taylor (10:10)
This is literally my house. So full episode is for me. Thank you so much for being here. But I can totally, I'm like checking boxes as you're talking, right? Where that's definitely what I've experienced over time with my own children, right? Like you're so excited for them to get home. They've been gone all weekend and like they're coming home, man. And I've got...
AJ (10:16)
No. ⁓
Taylor (10:36)
We're going to the pool. We're going to the baseball game. Like we're going to do these things. And I'm so excited. Like I'm ready for them to be back. And they get in the car and somebody throws a shoe at the back of my head and we're screaming and we're crying and we're melting down and we're rolling on the floor and we're hitting each other. And I hate you and you're horrible. And it's all of this, like letting all of this stuff out. And I do have the younger kids, right? But I'm on the cusp of, I have a tween.
And it's like the little kids are just like energy, just moving, screaming, right? Like, it's, so dysregulated and it's like heartbreaking. Like I was missing you for 48 whole hours and I'm, and now you're just like dumping all over me. And I used to take that personally, but I didn't know until very recently that sometimes this is a response to something totally outside of my relationship with them that they're experiencing. My tween.
recently got her own room and yep, she comes in, she goes in there, she shuts the door, she locks it. And you're knocking the door and you're like, hey, you wanna come out and play with us? You wanna come color? Nope, I don't. I wanna be by myself. And it was like, dude, like, and this was my buddy, right? This was the road dog. This is my oldest kid, right? We grew up together. And yeah, the shut down, the shut off.
And so then now I have to be way more cognizant of the fact that when she like, because she's doing that, when she does come to me, I'm working super hard to have almost a drop everything response to like be with her because if she's finally ready to come to me, like that's what she needs, you know? And so it's been really interesting. I think a lot of what's going on with my kids is,
we have a high con we have had a high conflict dynamic over the years that we've been divorced. And so sometimes it's great. Sometimes it's horrible. Sometimes it's, you know, it's and it's been round and around. So what can you advise parents on when there is a lot of conflict and the kids are seeing this conflict and maybe they start asking questions? Because I know my kids have come to me and they've started asking questions about things they've witnessed or heard from the other parent or heard me tell my mom.
you know, things maybe I wish I didn't say out loud. And now I've got to deal with the fact that they're asking questions about it.
AJ (13:06)
Well, I think it's a very, very fine line, right? And that the baseline for that line is we'd never want to speak poorly about the other parent ever, not just for legal purposes, but because of that attachment dynamic, right? We talked about how the safe parent with their attachment with their kid can do so much good and heal their trauma and do all the things. At the same point, we have to recognize that this kid also has an attachment to the other parent.
Right? That's their biological parent. It's, they have an equally strong attachment to them. So we don't want to speak badly about the other parent ever. Depending on the age of the kid, I would say it really depends on what you're going to say, how much information you're going to give them, how much information you're not going to give them. And what I really like to do is I kind of turn those questions around and say, say you've had a really challenging transition, right? Pickup drop off. There was fighting. There was something that happened that the kids witnessed.
Right? If the kids aren't going to bring it up, I usually kind of let things sit for a little bit. If the kids are coming to you and they're saying, well, what happened back there? You can say, you know what kiddo? I, I just don't think mom and dad were their best selves today. I'm really sorry. How did that make you feel? Are you okay? How do you think maybe we could do this differently next time? Right? Like really let's turn the conversation back onto them in terms of making it about them.
Not from a place of this is your problem to solve, but this is from a place of how did this make you feel? Because I really want to be mindful of the fact that you were probably not very comfortable here. This is not a fun thing to see. This is not a great thing to see. But also sometimes you're going to witness conflict in your life, right, kiddo? So how can we navigate that? How can we manage that? Right. So it kind of takes the focus and the pressure off of the other parent.
and you create a broader conversation about it around conflict management. And how are you, how do you think you would react if a friend came to you and this kind of, you got into a fight with a kid or, know, like we can create so many different scenarios with these kids to take the focus and attention off of the fact that it was both of their parents fighting and put it back onto the actual dynamic. Like, let's talk about what happened, right? Not necessarily who it was, but let's talk about what happened.
And how can we make you do this a little bit differently for you next time and validate their feelings around it? Was that scary for you? Like, how did that make you feel? I'm so sorry this happened in front of you. I think, you know what, mommy and daddy really need to, you know, take responsibility and we really need to show up better for you.
Taylor (15:48)
Wow, that's so good. just like having four kids, how much conflict do you think we have on a day to day basis? Right? Like there's a lot of opportunity in the moments and the exchanges that they've seen where you're right. My children's parents did not show up as their best selves on probably 35 occasions that I could think about off the top of my head, right in front of them. I'm not perfect. I'm learning.
all of this right alongside our audience and like with my friends and with the other people that are my clients, right? Like I'm learning this too. This is hard. This is not intrinsic stuff. And to hear you say like, let's talk about how we manage conflict as a whole. What a powerful lesson about like when you punch your sister in the face, how do you think that made your other siblings feel? Like maybe they also felt scared and maybe like I should be
coming from like another place of, I'm learning along with you about like the conflict, doing things to other people and, you know, just trying to navigate all of these relationships. Cause we're not gonna have a perfect world where we all get along. So that's a no.
AJ (16:56)
not always going to get it right either. Right? Like there's going to be days where you're going to lose it in front of them. And then it's really taking responsibility in front of that kid and being like, I'm so sorry you saw that that was not okay for mommy to behave that way. Like that I'm really, really sorry. And mommy's going to try to do differently next time. I think I think we as a safe parent sometimes we tend to and
There's nothing wrong with this because it's a natural instinct and in terms of how we react, but we react very defensively, right? Because usually the threat outside is threatening to us and it's threatening our kids, right? So we're gonna react defensively, but we can't necessarily, like we gotta kind of take ourselves out of the equation in those situations, not make it about herself and really focus all our attention on what is this dynamic doing to this kid right now.
Maybe I don't defend myself in front of the other parent. Maybe I don't say anything in front of the other parent. Maybe I let the other parent dig their own hole in front of my kid. And I just smile and walk away. Right? Am I gonna then, that's also, I wanna make a really solid point here is we're not just gonna lock those feelings away and not address them for ourselves, right? Are we gonna address them with our kid in terms of this is how mommy felt and that's why this is how mommy reacted?
No, because that's not for your kids to carry, right? We're gonna focus on the kids' feelings, on the kids' emotions, validating them, making sure they feel safe, making sure they feel secure. And then we gotta go process our own feelings with our own people, our own friends, our own coaches, our own therapists, our own whatever. We're not gonna bottle them up and just make it completely about the kids, but we do have to be super mindful of making sure we're addressing those feelings later. And probably right then and there, likely not the right place, right?
Rachel (18:49)
Such good points. Thank you. Yeah, I'm like it's been ten years for me. I'm a little bit past the super high conflict stuff, but this is still really really helpful. Thank you AJ.
Taylor (19:00)
What I think is
interesting though is I'm four and a half years post divorce and we are still living in this high conflict dynamic. And then I have some clients who are like, we might as well just be best friends at this point because we met 2018 and we're still sending messages back and forth like, Hey, can I get a quick strategy call in 2025 because this new thing happened.
And these people have been separated, parties are remarried, there's more kids now than there were before, and it's still going on. And I think that goes to the point of like when there's somebody who just wants to exist in chaos and conflict, it doesn't matter how long it's been. They will continue to drag it out forever. I have a ⁓ friend whose son is getting married, so this child is 25, and we're going back and forth about things that...
are really nobody's business but the sons, you know? And so some people are going to be that person. And I think it really goes to like, if you're the safe parent, if you're the person who is being that grounding presence in your children's lives or whatever, like your work's not gonna be done by passage of time or even by the kids turning 18. You know, this could be a lifelong thing for you, which is something I'm grappling with right now. I want so badly.
for the way that this feels when I have these conflict moments with my ex to stop. If there was any amount of money I could pay for this to be over, I would do it. I would go rob a bank. Like I would do it and I want it to be done, but it's not. And so like, how do we live in that?
AJ (20:42)
Well, one of the things I teach like in my program, because I do a group program as well for parents where they can connect with one another and I walk them through the trauma healing parent program and stuff like that. But one of the things I teach in that is something called radical acceptance. We have to really come to the hard realization of what this actually looks like and what the reality of it is. We can wish and hope for it to be any which way other than what it is. But the reality of it is this is what we're dealt.
and this is what we're faced with and this is what our kids are faced with, right? So once we're actually able to really grasp as hurtful and grief stricken as it sometimes is, but once we're able to process and really grasp what that looks like for ourselves and our kids, then what I find what really opens up for parents is this capacity to focus on what they can control. We gotta really get clear on the fact that we're never gonna be able to control the other parent.
We can't control what they do. We can't control what they say. There's no amount of pleading or prescribing or asking nicely or asking not nicely or there's no nothing that's going to change the other parent, right? That's not where our power is. Our power is in how we are responding to the other parent, how we're reacting to the other parent or not reacting to the other parent. And really once we're able to kind of let go of all the things we can't control,
and refocus our attention and our energy on the things that we can control, which is on yourself and your own self care and your own mental health. And then what kind of an environment are we creating for these kids when they get home? You control all of that. You control your attachment with your kids. You control the environment they're in when they're with you. So let's focus on the things we can focus on and focus on the things where your energy and focus is gonna give you the biggest outcome for your kids.
and then we deal with the other parent as it comes. It's always gonna come, it's always gonna be there. You could have like a spell where, you know, they go silent for two months. You're like, maybe this is, maybe we can see the light at the end of this tunnel. And then you get hit with something else, right? So it's just really recognizing and accepting. And like I said, with parents, when I work with them, what really happens is when they finally get to that place,
it opens up so much capacity for them to be able to actually focus on the things that matter to them and not continually be in this reactive space of the other parent is still controlling everything, right? Because we got to shift and take that back.
Rachel (23:17)
I have a question then. like okay so if we get to that point where we're like you know and we're doing pretty well with it probably not great every day because there's still shit flying in from every side but let's say we're at that point ourselves and also our kids still have to go over there they're maybe still struggling maybe they're saying
don't want to go to the other parent's house. it's scary to go over there or i don't feel comfortable there or i just want to stay here with you or whatever. they come back they're throwing the shoes at our heads or whatever like
Even like, so I just feel like there's two things here. One, I need to figure out how to get myself in order and have appropriate expectations. But then like we've talked about, our kids are still in that. And so how do we best support them when they're struggling with the back and forth and the different homes and all of that?
AJ (24:20)
Well, the first thing, like the first caveat really is if there is any sense of significant physical or sexual abuse, that you want to escalate that immediately, right? So let's just get that out and take care of what we're looking at. Typically, when we look at high conflict dynamic dynamics, when we're looking at the children experiencing something called coercive parenting. And the reason I say course of parenting is when you have been in, let's say a domestically abusive relationship yourself, you are now experiencing post separation abuse.
high conflict divorce, all those things, that particular personality style is a very rigid and consistent and persistent personality style. They don't change over time. And they don't change in terms of their core people that they interact with, right? People in their immediate family usually. So the partner, the children, things like that. So if they are that kind of a controlling personality type, they're probably parenting their children in a way that is extremely controlling as well, right? Which is where course parenting comes in.
When our children are struggling with that, again, we wanna reshift that focus and be like, okay, what do my kids need from me within the seven days that I have them, that's going to help sustain them for the next seven days there with dad, right? So part of the analogy or one of the analogies that I use in my group program is what would you do with your kids? How would you prepare them if they were going on a camping trip for seven days?
No food, no clothing, no shelter, no water, no nothing, right? How would you prepare them for that? You give them everything they possibly needed to survive the next seven days, right? That's what we're doing with these kids on an emotional and psychological level. When they're with us, we're gonna fill their buckets. Kids have a power bucket and an emotional bucket. And I won't get into the details about that, but.
There's ways where you wanna fill them up so significantly psychologically and emotionally that that love and care and attachment with you, their safe parent can sustain them in an unsafe environment while they're not getting their needs met, right? So they're, because we know course of personalities, they don't have the capacity to meet the needs of their children, right? They barely have the capacity to meet their own needs, right?
and they pull that energy, that psychological, that emotional energy from their kids. So a lot of what you're seeing when these kids come back and that depletion, those behaviors are because they are completely taxed out. Like they're completely depleted when they come back to you. So how are we gonna fill them up to be able to sustain them while they're gone? And I mean, if I can take a second here, like.
just to geek out on the neurobiological stuff. But the reason you're actually seeing those huge behaviors, especially with little kids when they're coming back, is if these kids are feeling, and this isn't really a conscious choice, right? If their bodies are feeling like they're in an unsafe environment, their brains are kicking them into survival mode, right?
When their brains are kicked into survival mode, and that could be for any period of time, right? Two days, three days, seven days, right? Even for two or three days is a long period of time for a little kid. When your brain is kicked into survival mode, it's releasing a bunch of stress hormones that's supposed to initiate you doing something. Like it's supposed to mobilize you to move, right? It's supposed to mobilize you to fight. It's supposed to mobilize you to flee. It's supposed to mobilize you to do something.
to get yourself safe, right? These kids can't, what are they gonna do? Run away from that parent? They're gonna fight that parent? What are they gonna do? So because they're not releasing all those hormones in the way that they're meant to release them, they're staying stuck in their bodies, right? The cortisol, the adrenaline, it's all staying stuck in their bodies. So when they come back to the safe parent and they're in a safe environment, that outburst of emotion that you're seeing, the shoe being thrown in the back of your head, all of those things,
That's that adrenaline and cortisol finally releasing from their body because they can finally be safe again. Which is why I also tell parents, those seeing those emotions, witnessing them, those behaviors can be very unsettling and very uncomfortable for parents, but we don't want to block them. We want to create safe environments for them to be able to do it in a safe way, but we don't want to block them because that's part of them completing that trauma cycle. And we want all of that yuckiness to come out.
We don't want it to stay stuck in our bodies. Sorry, I just, needed to keep you up there for a second.
Taylor (28:57)
Yeah,
for sure. That's very important too, because a lot of people, children learn that very young. So I have a child who has high behaviors and for a variety of reasons, right? And I know for a fact that the energy moves at my house and it doesn't move at the other parent's house. How do I know that for a fact? Because that other parent blames my parenting. I must just be a bad parent.
I must just not have any rules at my house. I must not follow through. Right. And the reality is, is verifiably by multiple, you know, the school, the therapist, the whoever, like we know these things to be true, right. On a scientific level. And so that energy does come out and it does move and yeah, learning to find ways to self-regulate.
is really important in the face of that because one, it's not going away. Like you said, we don't want to stifle it in a punitive way that's harmful to the child. But as a mother who deals with that very regularly, homegirl, you better figure out how to calm yourself down when that's over, because it's a lot, right? It is a lot to have that energy move around you.
be put on you and those things. like managing yourself and caring for yourself, having your own support team, having your own coach, having your own therapist, having your group that you can go to with people who understand that are safe, that you can talk to it about, people that you can process with, who understand you on a level because your old school parents who are boomers think you should be spanking your kids for doing that and they're not understanding that your child has an unmet need.
that they're dealing with and they have a lot that they're processing. And so it's so important to be in community with people that can help you, the mother or the safe parent, if you're the father, whatever, through this situation, because it's a lot.
AJ (31:02)
That's I'm so glad you mentioned that Taylor. It is so difficult and so challenging to manage these behaviors when they come at you from your kids. ⁓ Part of that is I think we as the parent will self blame quite a bit, right? Why is this coming at me? We take it personally. It's like I'm the safe parent. I'm here to help you. Why are you beating me up? Like what is happening? And and so much of that really is also a bit of a shift in perspective too, right? It's not personal.
It's not personal, right? They just need to get it out of their system. And you've actually created a safe enough space for them to do so, right? Having said that, a big part of what I teach is like, when your kids are away from you, your only focus outside of the necessities that you have to do, go to work and get all your, know, taken care of is self-care. Because your tank better be totally full by the time these kids are coming back because they're going to need you
to at your best so you can co-regulate with them. Right? If your tank is empty, you will not be able to co-regulate those kids because if you yourself are dysregulated, there's no way a dysregulated adult will ever regulate a dysregulated child, ever. That's so good. I didn't say that. Dr. Bruce Perry said that just to...
Taylor (32:19)
Great.
like we don't care who said it that was so good
Rachel (32:26)
Yes.
AJ (32:27)
I can't get credit. But that's a big part of it, right? We need to make sure our tanks are totally full so that we can actually support them. And then our own recovery, when the kids go back to dad's house, is we have to really focus consistently and mindfully on replenishing ourselves and healing ourselves, both emotionally and sometimes physically in the aftermath.
Taylor (32:55)
Yeah, Rachel's a huge proponent of that. Like Rachel's got her whole like vibe check of what she does when the kids are away and like, you know, how she gets herself taken care of and like meets her own needs. And I've watched that over the time that I've known Rachel and been like, hmm, because I used to be super like my kids are gone. I have no meaning and no purpose. And like,
Rachel (33:18)
to be fair I used to be like that too. it's just been longer for me. so I've had a little more time to get past that phase. but I was actually just talking about this last night with someone. I was like I used to legitimately sit on my couch and cry for entire weekends when my kids were gone. so it's taken me some years to get to that point. but you play soccer Taylor. I I love that. I feel like you just like run out all of your
anger and sadness and missing your kids. You just like plow people down on the soccer field and that's how you deal with things.
Taylor (33:53)
play soccer. I do that with and without my kids. My kids grew up on the soccer field. Like I literally would bring babies and carriers and sit them on the field and be like, who's stopping? Watch our kids, right? Like, and they've grown up on the field and they love it. And I do that. And that's a good way to get out some of that like energy and aggression. run. ⁓ But I literally just recently picked up playing music again. And so ⁓ I've been playing ⁓ the keyboard
in this unofficial band called The Pigeons. And as we get close to the show, I'm going to put our gig on October 26th in the show notes so people can watch Taylor on the keys playing pop punk and Tom Petty and The Cure and various other things. is like, it's been so fun to have something that is just something I do, because I like to do it.
AJ (34:50)
That's awesome. I love that.
Rachel (34:54)
Yes, yes. Okay, Jay, I'm really curious. Can you share just a little bit about like, where people can find you and what you offer? Because honestly, I'm listening to you talk about like, you just got to figure out how to pour into them. You got to like fill up their buckets and like, but how do we do that? Obviously, we don't have enough time to talk about all of that in this what 20, 30 minutes. Yeah. But like, so if other people are like me, like I gotta, I gotta know more. How do I learn this? How do I figure this out?
Taylor (35:13)
episode
Rachel (35:22)
What do you offer? How can people find you?
AJ (35:24)
Of course, you can find me on my website, which is the trauma healing parent.com. I'm on Facebook and LinkedIn. I think it's just under AJ Kajar on the both of those. ⁓ And then, so what I offer really is for really complex cases, a lot of court stuff going on, a lot of very, very entrenched deep stuff, a lot of trauma going on with the kids. I offer one on one supports where that
client really has access to me almost 24-7 for the period of time that they need it just so it'd be able to carry them through really really tough spots in their life and carry their kids through it. And then I also offer a group program every so often about twice a year where we get a bunch of parents together. I walk them through a 14-week program where we talk about the buckets and we talk about how we're going to fill buckets and we talk about the whole process of how we're going to navigate this for the next 18-20 some odd years.
and how we're gonna talk to the kids and how we're gonna maintain that line and how to answer all the tough questions and do all that. So that's my 14 week program that I offer about twice a year. And yeah, I also do one-off sessions. If you just have a random burning question and you're like, just need support in this one thing, I have a meeting with a lawyer tomorrow, don't really know how to navigate this or I have a meeting with my kids therapist, don't really know how to bring this up, just one-off sessions that you can book through my website as well.
Rachel (36:45)
All right, thank you AJ so much for being here. This was like, I feel like we probably could have talked for hours, but this is such a good place for people to get started when they're in these really high conflict situations. And I am so sure that people are gonna be searching you out, because you have so much, so much wisdom to offer in this area. So thank you so much for coming.
Taylor (37:03)
And if you want to know more about AJ and the book that she co-authored, Children's Mental Health Matters, we'll be dropping all of her information in the show notes. So feel free to reach out there.
AJ (37:04)
Thanks having me.
Rachel (37:16)
Thanks for hanging out with us on the Divorce Queens podcast. If you loved today's episode, be sure to hit subscribe and leave us review. It helps more women find the support they deserve.
Taylor (37:27)
You can find me, Taylor, on Instagram at momlawyeredivorced and you can find Rachel at RachelTalksDivorced. Got questions? Need a pep talk? Wanna share your story? Slide into our DMs. We're here for
AJ (37:39)
Thank
Rachel (37:40)
Divorce is not the end of your story. It is the beginning of your comeback. See you next week.
