Taylor (00:00.11)
So this is a topic that's super on our hearts and minds right now because we miss our kids when we don't have our kids. So we want to talk about missing our kids when they're not with us and how do we fill our days when our kids aren't around. Welcome to the Divorce Queens podcast where real women get real about divorce. I'm Taylor Wins, divorce coach, family law attorney, and mom of four.
And I'm Rachel Kennedy, family mediator, parenting consultant, and divorced mom of three. We are here to cut through the noise and bring you the legal, personal, and practical sides of divorce because getting divorced isn't just a legal process. It is a total life transformation.
So whether you're thinking about getting divorced, in the middle of the chaos, or trying to rebuild after it's all over, you're not alone. Grab your coffee, your wine, or your walking shoes, and let's get into it.
And I know this is super top of mind for you right now, Rachel, because you have some crazy stuff going on with your parenting schedule right now. Like, what's up with that? Yeah.
Yeah, we ended up having to swap some weekends. We both had some trips and some family things. Then we've got the odd holidays. And this year we're recording in June and Memorial Day and 4th of July. They're with their dad. So it's like between the swapping weekends and stuff. It's like I've had a few times recently where I've seen my kids like two days out of two whole weeks or whatever. And it's very sad. So.
Taylor (01:32.526)
Especially because they don't say babies for long and like times a thief
yeah, my kids are really big. One of them's taller than me and one of them's gonna be taller than me by like tomorrow, I'm sure of it. So.
Rachel (01:47.768)
Actually, didn't I tell you that that just happened with my 14 year old? He was just gone for a five day weekend and he came back and I was like, what? You're like, what just happened? But yeah. I feel like I should say though, for the record, this whole thing where I have them way more than they're with their dad also is going to happen like, cause I have them Labor Day this weekend and stuff. like over the course of a whole year, we each have them approximately half the time. It's just kind of a wonky time.
right now. So it kind of goes back and forth, but.
Yeah, absolutely. Well, and this is on my mind because my kids have been out of school for two weeks. And during the school year, I have one schedule, which we're going to talk about the evolution of our parenting time schedules. And then in the summer, we have a different schedule and it recognizes the fact that their dad is a school teacher. So he's off in the summer. And so he has substantially more time in the summer than he does during the school year. And right now I've just been home with them for two whole weeks, except the weekend. Like I'm talking
sun up me and my four besties are waking up in bed together because they all climb in throughout the middle of the night to like sundown sleeping in the living room you know doing all the things it's it's like a throwback to when they were little and i was home with them for two whole weeks and now we're about to like go headfirst into this parenting time schedule where every single week in the middle of the week for three days they're with their dad because he's off and i still work so that is like
me like getting ready to shed some tears because the summer is also the time where you get to pool and Valley fair and do all the fun stuff. But that's where I have less time than I otherwise have. So you've been divorced for 10 plus years, 10 years. What did your parenting time schedule start like? Like give me like how it started versus how it's going.
Rachel (03:38.22)
yeah so when we first split i had the kids basically all the time they went to their dad's house i mean this was 10 years ago but if i'm remembering correctly i want to say it was like four hours four daytime hours like twice a week no overnights at all which was kind of fine i mean i had been home with them anyway and homeschooled and all of that so like i was used to having a ton of time with my kids
But that was hard when I was then on my own and had them like 90 over 90 % of the time. then I think for a short time, it was kind of that, but then he had every other Friday overnight. and then kind of our next big iteration was approximately 3565. He had them a little bit more time and some overnights, but they were still with me the majority of the time.
And that was, I don't even know, three, four, five years, something like a while. I lost track of it all right now, but that lasted for a while. And now we are pretty close to a true 50-50 and it's been that way three, three or four years, I think. So we've kind of done all of it over the years.
Do you do like a five to two five basically? Yep. That's what you do. Yeah. That's what I thought, but I wasn't sure. I should know that since in the summer, guess who's got the same weekends and Wednesdays, Thursdays.
That's exactly what we do.
Rachel (05:13.358)
We should get into that though. We should tell people what we do when we both have kid free weekends.
we're going to get there. So yes, we have the same weekends, but then in the summer, when my schedule changes, we both have Wednesday night out for sure. And then I think every once in a blue moon, my ex-husband will have Thursdays, that's ours is wonky and weird as an attorney do not recommend the schedule that we use, but that's fine. whatever. So I've been divorced four and a half years. and we had a similar
journey from my ex having like very little time with the kids to start, mine was a little more dependent on the like the age that my kids were when we got divorced. So when my divorce, when I mentioned I wanted a divorce, the second time story for another episode, I'm sure it appears somewhere. But when I divorced my ex husband the second time, I was pregnant with my fourth son or my fourth child, my son, who's the best little boy to ever live. Somebody fight me on that. But I was pregnant with him and I was like, dude, I'm out.
like this is over, I'm not doing it. We had been to counseling therapy, that all appears in another episode. And I wasn't, I was done. So then we filled out the papers. I filled out the papers while I was pregnant, wanted him to sign them. I don't think he signed them until after my son was born. I think he was thinking like my son would be born and then it would all be fine. I was like, no, I still need you to send those papers. when.
I work for a death-
Taylor (06:41.838)
When the divorce was finalized on Zoom, because this is pandemic-era 2020, my son was six weeks old, maybe coming up on seven weeks, but he was like a little guy. And he was exclusively breastfed, so he did no overnights with his dad at that point. So my daughters and him would go to my ex's house on Tuesdays from like four to seven, and then Thursdays.
Or was it every other Thursday? I can't even remember. think every Tuesday, four to seven, every other Thursday, four to seven. And then the girls would go to their dad's house from Friday at four to Sunday at four every other weekend. And then my son would go like Saturday, 10 AM to 4 PM or something ridiculous. Cause whatever that's what we did. And then my son would come home with me and he would go Sunday morning again for a few hours and then come back with the girls at four o'clock. And so it was a pretty.
small amount of parenting time for my ex, but I think it was in recognition of their age and I had been home too. So I'd been home with them. He worked full time. He just wasn't going to be able to keep them. And this is like the kids weren't in school. They weren't in daycare, like none of that. So it just made sense for where we were at the time. And it also helped or didn't hurt that when I got divorced, I moved back in with mom and dad. like there were other adults around. Then we fast forward a couple of years. My son's a little older. He goes, you know,
from probably one year on, he did all the same overnight set as sisters day. Um, then we went like my ex had every Tuesday was an overnight and then every other weekend, Friday to Sunday. Then we added on this summer schedule that we have now where it's like, I don't even know. I should go read my own modifications of the decree, but it's something like Tuesday at 10 AM, which starts next week. I better figure it out.
I was like, you better figure out what your schedule is.
Taylor (08:33.006)
I build my whole life around like where do my kids need to be so if they're with me less fine right like I just so Tuesday at 10 a.m. until I want to say Thursday at 4 or 6 or something and then every other weekend Friday to Sunday with their dad the rest of the time they're with me so that's how we've evolved I would see I wouldn't be surprised if at some point
it evolved into more of like an equal or shared parenting time schedule just because I know that's what my ex wants. I think I'm like a lot of moms where I'm like, I would keep these guys all the time, given the choice, but you know, they have the right to have a relationship with their dad. If it makes sense in the future for where we're all at, then hey, that's what it's gonna end up being. So that's us. I know that a lot of people have varying parenting time schedules and they're dealing with it too, but like,
I think where we wanted to talk about, or where we wanted to go with this in our conversation was just like all the mom feels we have, Rachel, when they're not here. Tell me a little bit about that, because I know we cope differently.
Well, I'm a crier. So seriously, had been, like, so it was a week before my oldest turned 10 when we split. She's now 20, lives in a different state. That's whole different story, because that's a whole new phase of parenting. But it was a week before her 10th birthday, and then my boys were three and seven. And up to that point, so 10 years into parenting,
I had been away from my kids for 24 hours either once or twice. Other than that, I stayed home with them. I homeschooled and I breastfed and I co-slept and all the things. And so I was definitely like way attached at the hip to my kids. And then like I said, they just started going a few hours at a time. I was okay with that. And to be honest, at that point, I kind of like needed the break. It kind of felt like they were like,
Rachel (10:41.814)
going to the babysitter for like a couple hours and then coming home or whatever. But I cried the first time they spent an overnight at their dad's and then I cried again the first time they spent a whole weekend and then you know each time it got longer and now I want to say maybe twice over the years they've been gone for like 10 days at a time like if they've been on a trip or something. And it's still hard but I don't cry anymore.
And I think this is, I want to hear from you too, but I think just kind of what we want to talk about too is like what we're doing with our time and kind of how we've gotten to be kind of more used to this. Because I think it might be encouraging to some of those parents that are in the earlier stages because it
It's so hard. I still, okay, four and a half years, right? It's not 10, but it's not like some small insignificant amount of time that my kids have been going, you know, from their home with mom to their home with dad every few days or whatever. And I do feel like during the week sometimes, like, man, this Tuesday couldn't come fast enough.
because I don't have to get up at 6.30 in the morning and pack a lunch and drive to school and fight a four-year-old about where his Ninja Turtle light-up shoes are and do those things that sometimes make parenting really hard and make us feel really burnt out as parents, specifically, I think, moms. And so sometimes at Tuesday, I'm like, woof, but like, and sometimes on Friday, right? Like TGI Friday, baby, let's go to happy hour. Like, you know what, I'm so like,
And then I wake up Saturday morning and I'm like, I wish my broke best friends were here to go to the farmer's market.
Rachel (12:27.95)
I my
Rachel (12:34.178)
You call me next time you a farmer's market buddy.
You broke two. mean, pay for all the honey sticks.
You need me
Rachel (12:43.544)
Will you buy me honey sticks, Taylor?
Right? But it's like, I really enjoy my time with my kids. And that's one of my biggest, think, parenting regrets that I think a lot of people have is that in the years that they were really small, even the years that I was home with them, I spent a lot of time prioritizing my career. And so I feel like I missed out on a lot of time, which I think makes the, which you may not know, I had a job where I traveled for work, Rachel, but like, I think
that makes the parenting time transitions almost feel harder. Cause while I'm like, I sometimes feel like I need the break or whatever, cause I'm burnt out. Like I need to chill too, but I already miss all these years. You know what I mean? Or all these moments or this time that I wish I hadn't. And now I'm like missing more time, right? And so I feel like that can make it feel super, super, super hard. The one thing I would say though is like, yes, all the feels are so...
normal and the crying and the tears and feeling like half your heart just walked out the door. But it's also really normal to be like, we need them to go. Like we need them to get out of the house. I need them to take a break. I need to be able to clean. I need to be able to like pick things up without somebody literally walking behind me with the roll of toilet paper that they're ripping up, throwing in the air, calling it confetti. Like I need to be able to get a minute where somebody didn't rip off the door jam because they thought it looked like a ninja stamp.
You know, and like I need a break from that sometimes. And that's normal too. Like that is normal too. That doesn't make you a bad parent.
Rachel (14:18.944)
No, I'm so glad you said that because I had so much mom guilt, I think at first, but over the years I've been like, you know what? I need to live my life too. And I don't even feel bad about advancing my career and dating and nurturing friendships and following hobbies and all of that. Like don't even feel bad about it anymore. just, I love my life with my kids and I also love my life without my kids.
And whether or not you mope around and cry or go out and live your best life, they're not here.
They're still gone, so you might as well figure out a silver lining. I mean, do we call that tough love or something? Like, you're not going to change the situation by being upset about it, so...
And like I know for myself now being in a second marriage relationship, what the opportunity, like what an opportunity I'm getting to nurture my individual one on one relationship with my husband, who also doesn't have kids the same weekend I don't have kids. So that when all of our kids are gone, and they go to college, we don't have any children together, but we do still have to like step up for the rides and cook dinner and whatever for
all of our kids collectively, many, days a week. Like we have the opportunity to have this nurtured relationship with ourselves so that when our kids all go to college and 10, yeah, 10 years from now, when they're all out of the house, we're not two people that don't even know each other because we spent all these years just coexisting, raising a bunch of loud, rowdy children and getting them to all the sporting events and the places they needed to be. So like that's another opportunity for the people that repartner.
Taylor (16:00.918)
And you have your second chance at love and happiness. Like it's amazing opportunity to be able to spend time, you know, with your, your spouse too, or that boyfriend or those friends, like you said, and just like figure, do you figure out yourself? So what do you do when you don't have your kids?
Well, last Friday night, I went mini golfing with my bestie and her new husband and my boyfriend. And now we had pizza on a patio afterwards. Why are you laughing, Taylor? Maybe you were there because we have cute pictures of us like modeling with our little mini golf clubs. Yeah, no, seriously, though, I, I spend time with my friends. I spend time with my partner. I am able to do extra
Maybe I was there.
Rachel (16:47.18)
Like a lot of work related stuff is at night and it's much easier for me to do that when my kids are gone. Cause then I don't have to worry about getting them to practice and do, you know, cooking them dinner and all that kind of stuff. I've got some hobbies. One time I went to a pottery thing. I go out dancing fairly often, which Taylor does too. Cause we do it together.
Yeah, I honestly, sometimes I just sleep in because I don't have to get anybody to school in the morning or, you know, I plan my first work meeting later in the day and I just like get up and like do yoga on a Thursday morning because I want to and I can and I don't need to drive anyone to school that day, you know, and yeah.
Yeah, I love that. When I was more in like my law firm lifestyle phase, which we know I'm getting much out of that, just super burnt out of the high conflict and that kind of stuff and much more into like the coaching and the alternative methods phase. But when I was much more into the law firm phase, that was like my opportunity to work extra hours and build more hours and work hard and you know, whatever. And then it was my opportunity to network and go out and build my book of business with that those kind of traditional
ways of doing law firm work. And so that was good. That served a purpose and a time that I needed it. Now I'm much more at my, what is it, my third of a life crisis, right? Like I'm gonna be a hundred. So I'm about one third of the way through my life right now. And so I'm experiencing a shift and I'm using the time to do a lot more things that I enjoy and like,
trying to avoid burnout and really find myself and who I want to be when I grow up and the things that I'm doing. So I recently got back into running. So I used the time that they were with their dad to train and I ran a 10K and ran into, was actually the women run the cities, 10K ran into so many friends and acquaintances that I hadn't seen in a long time. That was super fun. And I didn't have to worry about finding a babysitter. I just picked a race on a weekend. I didn't have the kids. Like that was literally like, when don't I have the kids? Let me see.
Taylor (18:59.554)
You know, run the USA has all the races on there and I picked one. and then, you know, same thing. I hang out with my friends. go to professional sporting events. I go see the loons when I don't have the kids. And then I, I might take them if I have them, it's kind of an expensive outing for people that can't sit still and pay attention, but you know, it's nice to be able to go without them or to not have to drag them along to, cause I actually do a lot of my hobbies with the kids and without the kids. It's a lot of us the same.
But it's nice sometimes to not have to drag somebody who still pees their pants out to a public event. you know, so that's really fun. And then yeah, going dancing, going on dates that are adult dates, you know, like real adult dates going out for a nice dinner. golfing. Mini golfing. same place I take my kids mini golfing and sneak snacks into the golf course. Yes, 100%. But another thing that I really love to do is
We're s-
Taylor (19:57.42)
traveling and I do take like professional trips and stuff when I don't have the kids or sometimes I'll just be like you'll ask where should we go this weekend because we can and if there's a fair to it or if it's drivable let's do it and so that's really fun. I do a lot of off-duty parenting though so like we would consider you off duty when it's not your scheduled designated time
with the kids and I have four kids who all play sports and activities from ages 10 down. So 10, nine, six and a half. She's really close to seven and four. And they all do hockey and soccer. We are picking back up. Somebody is gonna start dancing again against my wishes, but whatever, I paid for it. Rachel, you'll love this. They sent it for theater camp.
Love that for you.
And so they're going to be at a two week theater camp where you go to the camp for two weeks. then on the Friday of the second week, you do a play, you give a performance. I'm, they are jacked to do it. Right. So there are all these sports and activities. And so I do a lot of off-street parenting time where it may not be my weekend or my night, but I am the coach of the soccer team. And so I've got to be there. Or sometimes the games are really far away and it's just one kid. So I might drive to my ex's house.
pick up that child, drive them to the game, bring them back home. We did that a bunch with hockey because you're doing this during the school year and you you've got ages four, six and eight at the time have to be at school in the morning. And the oldest kid has hockey from, you know, Rosemount to Wiconia and the puck drops at 9 p.m. on a school night. So I would go get them and take the one kid and bring them back. And you know, I get home and it's like midnight.
Taylor (21:48.106)
stuff like that, or I'm coaching, or just by reason of having four kids doing things, I might show up to the field for one child's game, all four kids are there, and then it's, need to take two of them to the next activity while he stays with the older two. Sometimes you even have to call my mom and she's got to tap in too. So I do a lot of that. So there's only a handful of weekends throughout the year. I'd say maybe 10 weekends all year where I don't end up.
doing some level of parenting on an off-duty weekend. So I'm okay with that right now because I do miss my kids when they're gone, but I could also see how and have complained a little bit about how sometimes it feels a little unfair. That's the expectation. So yeah.
Yeah. And I think that's a good time to mention too, like you were saying, like it's okay if they're both true. Like you can be like, I miss my kids so much. I want to cry. I don't even know what to do with my life. And also I just need a break. Where can these people go? Cause I need to pee in silence for once.
Right. Yeah, that is not sad enough. Right. Like we glamorize sometimes. Sometimes I think the Internet glamorizes parent parenthood and parenting so much that like we feel guilt and shame for needing a minute to ourselves to do something so rudimentary as close the bathroom door without somebody busting in.
Yeah. Let alone such selfish things as building a career or building a new relationship or something. And it's like, uh-uh, I, I don't feel guilty. And we're talking about our kids. I'm a better parent when I'm a happier person and a more well-rounded person. And part of that is building my career. And part of that is moving ahead in, you know, romantic relationships and friendships and the
Rachel (23:49.12)
not plural, one romantic relationship and also friendships.
Do we need an episode about polyamory? No. Okay. I don't have any input either. No.
No, we're good there. But yeah, I'm a better mom when my life is more full and well-rounded. So I used to feel guilty about that and I don't anymore and now I just don't it. Thanks for hanging out with us on the Divorce Queens podcast. If you loved today's episode, be sure to hit subscribe and leave us review. It helps more women find the support they deserve.
You can find me, Taylor, on Instagram at momlawyeredivorced and you can find Rachel at RachelTalksDivorced. Got questions? Need a pep talk? Want to share your story? Slide into our DMs. We're here for it.
Divorce is not the end of your story. It is the beginning of your comeback. See you next week.
